Nice list! I'm really diggin the Cheap Long Fangs in the new Dex!
Doesn't the Wolf Guard with claws added to the Grey Hunters make them too large to ride in the Pod and Rhinos?
I thought he was an add on from the elite choices not an upgrade, and you'd have to sacrifice a GH and the second special to get him in the transport.
Cheers, Jim
mkerr
· 3 months ago
Hey Big Jim, thanks for catching that! I moved those guys around so much, that in the end I missed the extra guy in the Rhino (originally started out as a Drop Pod list). It's probably better in this case to keep the free special and move the WG to the Long Fangs as an extra wound.
But that illustrates the value of Drop Pods in Space Wolves armies -- that extra Wolf Guard is awesome for his crazy versatility and can add some awesome close combat ability or ranged damage output to a Grey Hunters squad in a Drop Pod.
@Seth: Not sure if the dex has made it to the stores yet. I know that it's in the GW Black Box so they should be getting it any time. And I agree about the value of that 18pt extra wound in the Long Fangs squad.
Big Jim
· 3 months ago
Mkerr, don't forget that SW drop pods only hold 10 models, the same goes for standard Godhammer Landraiders in the SW dex.
mkerr
· 3 months ago
I caught that on the standard Landraider, but I missed ten models on Drop Pods. Wow, that's poorly thought out on their end (especially with all of the requirements for HQ and the sweet WG options).
So we're looking at: 1. Drop Pod = 10 SW / 12 SM 2. Landraider = 10 SW / 12 SM 3. While Rhinos, Razorbacks, Crusaders and Redeemers all match the SM codex?
That's really strange. When I saw the LR issue, I thought "that's a crappy typo that's going to haunt SW players". But Landraider AND Drop Pod? That's going to be really painful.
Mikael
· 3 months ago
Starting to look like they maybe were not all that pleased with the SM codex changes in troop capacity on some of the vehicles.
mkerr
· 3 months ago
Since there are two changes, we have to assume it was intentional (instead of a typo). If it was intentional, then we have to assume they wanted to prevent 11 model shenanigans (10 GH + WG, 10 BC + IC, etc.).
I'm finding the limitation frustrating; which is exactly the opposite of how you want to feel when you build an army list.
Seth
· 3 months ago
Is the dex up at Battleforge for us low level peons to peruse?
As Jim noted, your GH squads are too big for their transports. Also, you might want to add a plain Wolf Guard to each of your long fang squads for the extra ablative wound.
Atrotos
· 3 months ago
Space Wolves look like the new way to field Elite Space Marine armies. Sternguard are my fave SM choice but they can't become troops. Perhaps now with the awesomeness of Grey Hunters they can be replaced (keeping the same awesome models of course).
mkerr
· 3 months ago
I've played my grey "Relictors" army as codex Marines, Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and codex Marines again. It looks like they are going to get some time on the table as Space Wolves now, lol.
GiantKiller
· 3 months ago
Sternguard can be taken as "scoring units" if you take Pedro Kantor as an HQ choice. See Codex:SM p. 90, specifically the "Hold the Line!" rule.
-GK
Atrotos
· 3 months ago
Thanks but I knew about that and actually thats what I tend to do but the mandatory "regular" Tac squads seriously dilutes my theme of Ultramarine Tyranid Veterans. A way to field a force where everyone is a vet would allow me to recreate the Ultramarine 1st Company the way I want to.
EDIT: I wonder what can be done with an all Wolf Guard army. They can be Troops now right?
mkerr
· 3 months ago
Yes, if you take Logan Grimnar (he costs a lot -- the same as Abaddon) then Wolf Guard can be taken as troops. There's no restriction, so you can take six Wolf Guard units.
If I was going to build an "all veteran" army, that's a good way to do it.
mkerr
· 3 months ago
So it looks like the question becomes "2 special weapons or 1 special weapon and a Wolf Guard"?
What a crappy dilemma.
Big Jim
· 3 months ago
I completely agree, but as a long time Son of Russ I am used to this kind of dilemma.
I do like that we have more options and tough choices to make with outfitting the Grey Hunters.
graemepaul
· 3 months ago
I dont agree. I too am annoyed that Rhino's, LR's and DP's are capacity 10 (why do regular marines get the extra space and not us?) however If I am taking Grey Hunters I would take eith shooty Hunters with special weapons or smashy Hunters with power weapons and a wolf Guard. To be honest this is how we had to do is all the way up to 4th so I dont see how it makes a huge difference.
And I would always try and take a LRC if I am packing BC's as I like smashing my opponent with that particular sledgehammer of a unit (most of my Ork opponents cry when that thing gets set up as they know what pain is coming).
Phalanx
· 3 months ago
[i]10 Grey Hunters (2 Meltaguns, Power Fist) w/Wolf Guard (Wolf Claw) — Transport: Drop Pod[/i]
That squad totals 11 d00ds. You can't fit them in the brand new 10 man only SW drop pods and if you take a WG in a 10 man unit you can't take a second melta (as they are assigned at the start of the game, not when you make the army list).
mkerr
· 3 months ago
Yeah, we've been talking about that (here and in the forums). Apparently Space Wolves need a bit more "dude space" than regular codex marines. Perhaps that explains their animosity toward Dark Angels, lol.
I'm iterating the list right now with feedback that I've gotten via comments and PMs.
Thanks!
Big Jim
· 3 months ago
I really like the revised list a lot! I cannot wait to give the new Wolves a spin!
CrusherJoe
· 3 months ago
So I'm guessing by "great games" you mean "running your opponents over with the new rape train"? :)
Holy Sons of Russ, Monty, Jaws of the World Wolf is incredibly broken -- unless there's something about it you're not telling us. If so, please share.
mkerr
· 3 months ago
No, it's pretty broken. You draw a 24" line from the Rune Priest (it's not a shooting attack and ignore terrain, so line of sight isn't an issue). Any models on that line take an initiative test. If they fail, they are removed from play.
It work against infantry, jump infantry, bikes, cavalry and monstrous creatures (they get a bonus of +1 to the initiative test). It's by model, so you can snipe characters and important models.
Right now there's some debate about taking the same psychic power more than once (I read it that you can -- as long as your have different combinations of psychic powers, others read that you can't). But if you CAN, then I can take four Rune Priests with JotWW in Drop Pods and cause you all kinds of frustration.
I4 Marines pass 2/3rd (67%) of the time and I5 characters pass 5/6th (83%), but it's going to be terrible on I3 armies.
There's no real draw back. Rune Priests are L10 psykers, so they'll get the power off reliably. There are no saves against the attack (no cover, no invulnerables). It doesn't cause instant death (so it ignore Eternal Warrior and Synapse).
And Rune Priests are CHEAP -- 100pts with a Rune Blade (Force Weapon, negates psychic powers within 24" on a 4+, and wounds Daemons on 2+) and TWO psychic powers.
CrusherJoe
· 3 months ago
Wow.
That's...pretty much what I was afraid of.
As I said on my blog, Inquisitor Lords with the old-school unlimited range psychic hoods are now mandatory unless you like the feel of wolf johnson in your backside.
It just...well it disappoints me more than anything. GW has been impressing me lately and now...this. It's like they don't even care about the ramifications of some of the things they do.
mkerr
· 3 months ago
I think it sounds worse that it actually is. I tried it against Bigred's winged Daemon Prince, possessed and chosen and didn't manage to kill any of them. With I4 and I5 models it's just not that effective unless you can cover a LOT of them (and 24" just isn't long enough to use it more than once or twice in a game).
mortal888
· 3 months ago
Sure, it's not a problem unless you like Nurgle.....
mkerr
· 3 months ago
Yup, I did manage to bring down a couple of plague marines but couldn't quite get any of the models that really mattered.
mortal888
· 3 months ago
Actually, I was referring to Great Unclean Ones, KuGoth, plaguebearers. All Initiative 2. Wouldn't that be fun? roll a dice, on a 1thru 3 that 300 point KuGoth just bit the dust.
mkerr
· 3 months ago
GUO and Ku'Goth get +1s to the rolls, so they pass on 1s and 2s. But I agree that it's aweful for low-initiative armies.
The Rune Priest with a jump pack (or bike or drop pod) is going to be great at dealing with icon bearers, special weapons, officers, etc.
Sev
· 3 months ago
I have a question, why do you have the Power Fits on Grey Hunters? They only get 2 attacks on the first round, than a single pitiful attack and they still pay the regular price of 25 for them. From what I've head, it's only 20 on the WG, for an extra attack. While wolf claws are fine, just give a power weapon to a Grey Hunter instead, one attack less an no rerolls but it seems worth it to me for more Power Fists attacks while you're already more than decent against regular troops (and you can always add MotW to help that out even more).
Or perhaps just add meltabombs to the WG and keep the setup aside from the Fist, but I just can't pay 25 for a single Power Fist attack in extended combat.
mkerr
· 3 months ago
When I built the army, I wanted options. I was counting on rapid-firing out of Drop Pods (and Rhinos) and letting my opponent assault me. That still gave me 2 Power Fist attacks, which seemed enough.
But I've since discovered that I really don't need Power Fists. Why? Mark of the Wulfen. With D6+1 (plus assault or counter-attack), these puppies can actually threaten just about anything in the game (including putting two wounds on a Wraithlord in my last game).
So for Grey Hunters I've settled on Power Weapon and Mark of the Wulfen for my close combat upgrades.
Thanks for the comment!
drummerholt1234
· 2 months ago
2000pts.... Thats it?
One raider doesn't scare anybody even with a "death star" unit inside of it. They will shoot it up and then that unit will be walking the rest of the game. What is your lone wolf going to do? It is only one model and easily avoided and left alone considering it only has meltabombs. Why powerfists on a 1 attack model?
All Comments
Doesn't the Wolf Guard with claws added to the Grey Hunters make them too large to ride in the Pod and Rhinos?
I thought he was an add on from the elite choices not an upgrade, and you'd have to sacrifice a GH and the second special to get him in the transport.
Cheers,
Jim
But that illustrates the value of Drop Pods in Space Wolves armies -- that extra Wolf Guard is awesome for his crazy versatility and can add some awesome close combat ability or ranged damage output to a Grey Hunters squad in a Drop Pod.
@Seth: Not sure if the dex has made it to the stores yet. I know that it's in the GW Black Box so they should be getting it any time. And I agree about the value of that 18pt extra wound in the Long Fangs squad.
So we're looking at:
1. Drop Pod = 10 SW / 12 SM
2. Landraider = 10 SW / 12 SM
3. While Rhinos, Razorbacks, Crusaders and Redeemers all match the SM codex?
That's really strange. When I saw the LR issue, I thought "that's a crappy typo that's going to haunt SW players". But Landraider AND Drop Pod? That's going to be really painful.
I'm finding the limitation frustrating; which is exactly the opposite of how you want to feel when you build an army list.
As Jim noted, your GH squads are too big for their transports. Also, you might want to add a plain Wolf Guard to each of your long fang squads for the extra ablative wound.
-GK
EDIT: I wonder what can be done with an all Wolf Guard army. They can be Troops now right?
If I was going to build an "all veteran" army, that's a good way to do it.
What a crappy dilemma.
I do like that we have more options and tough choices to make with outfitting the Grey Hunters.
And I would always try and take a LRC if I am packing BC's as I like smashing my opponent with that particular sledgehammer of a unit (most of my Ork opponents cry when that thing gets set up as they know what pain is coming).
— Transport: Drop Pod[/i]
That squad totals 11 d00ds. You can't fit them in the brand new 10 man only SW drop pods and if you take a WG in a 10 man unit you can't take a second melta (as they are assigned at the start of the game, not when you make the army list).
I'm iterating the list right now with feedback that I've gotten via comments and PMs.
Thanks!
Holy Sons of Russ, Monty, Jaws of the World Wolf is incredibly broken -- unless there's something about it you're not telling us. If so, please share.
It work against infantry, jump infantry, bikes, cavalry and monstrous creatures (they get a bonus of +1 to the initiative test). It's by model, so you can snipe characters and important models.
Right now there's some debate about taking the same psychic power more than once (I read it that you can -- as long as your have different combinations of psychic powers, others read that you can't). But if you CAN, then I can take four Rune Priests with JotWW in Drop Pods and cause you all kinds of frustration.
I4 Marines pass 2/3rd (67%) of the time and I5 characters pass 5/6th (83%), but it's going to be terrible on I3 armies.
There's no real draw back. Rune Priests are L10 psykers, so they'll get the power off reliably. There are no saves against the attack (no cover, no invulnerables). It doesn't cause instant death (so it ignore Eternal Warrior and Synapse).
And Rune Priests are CHEAP -- 100pts with a Rune Blade (Force Weapon, negates psychic powers within 24" on a 4+, and wounds Daemons on 2+) and TWO psychic powers.
That's...pretty much what I was afraid of.
As I said on my blog, Inquisitor Lords with the old-school unlimited range psychic hoods are now mandatory unless you like the feel of wolf johnson in your backside.
It just...well it disappoints me more than anything. GW has been impressing me lately and now...this. It's like they don't even care about the ramifications of some of the things they do.
The Rune Priest with a jump pack (or bike or drop pod) is going to be great at dealing with icon bearers, special weapons, officers, etc.
Or perhaps just add meltabombs to the WG and keep the setup aside from the Fist, but I just can't pay 25 for a single Power Fist attack in extended combat.
But I've since discovered that I really don't need Power Fists. Why? Mark of the Wulfen. With D6+1 (plus assault or counter-attack), these puppies can actually threaten just about anything in the game (including putting two wounds on a Wraithlord in my last game).
So for Grey Hunters I've settled on Power Weapon and Mark of the Wulfen for my close combat upgrades.
Thanks for the comment!
One raider doesn't scare anybody even with a "death star" unit inside of it. They will shoot it up and then that unit will be walking the rest of the game. What is your lone wolf going to do? It is only one model and easily avoided and left alone considering it only has meltabombs. Why powerfists on a 1 attack model?